Guano (1)

Comments that seem to me to be in violation of the game rules will be moved here, and closed to further comment.  Do not regard having your post moved here as a reprimand, merely as a referee’s whistle. 🙂

Feel free to comment on them at any other peanut gallery of your choice.

1,658 thoughts on “Guano (1)”

  1. Thorton: It’s SCIENCE FICTION you nimrod.That means it’s NOT REAL.

    I’ll remember this example of yours Joe, the next time you start pushing that stupid IDiot book “Privileged Planet”.I’ll just remind you in Star Trek there are *lots* of privileged planets that gave us the Vulcans, the Romulans, the Klingons, the Ferengi, etc.

    Hey fuckhead Your ENTIRE position is science-fiction.

    As I said “The Island of Dr Moreau” is your position’s documentary.

  2. And again evoTARDs- if you could just step up and actually support the claims of your position, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    However you are too coward lyto do something like that.

    as predicted…

  3. The whole truth:
    joe g said:

    “Except natural selection isn’t selection it is just a result.”

    A result of what? And can there be a “result” if nothing happens?

    joe g said:

    “Please point me to the EVIDENCE which DEMONSTRATES that natural selection can construct things.”

    I don’t recall anyone saying that NS “can construct things”. You’re arguing with real scientists, joe. You should be more specific, and at least try to sound more sciency.

    Hey joe, please point me to the EVIDENCE which DEMONSTRATES that your imaginary god allah can construct things.

    I have told you and provided references wrt natural selection.

    Thank you for proving that you are an ignorant tool.

    BTW ole ignorant tool- DARWIN used NS as a designer mimic, meaning evos think it can construct things- man you are one sorry ignorant bitch.

  4. But thanks olegt- thank you for proving that you have no business critiquing what I say about GAs- the reason you have no business is that it is obvious that you are ignorant as hell wrt GAs- stick with physics if that is what you are good at because you suck at everything outside of that field.

  5. Joe G: oleg if a GA is DESIGNED to solve a problem and it solves it, it does so BY DESIGN, not willy-nilly.

    The mutations can be randdom but they are directed towards the goal by the fitness function selection coefficient

    No Joe. The selection coefficient is just a measure of the relative fitness of an organism as compared to all the organisms in a population.

    In your “cell internal GA” scenario, how does the GA know its individual fitness relative to the rest of the population?

    How does the internal GA manage to direct the external selection pressures to ensure that only the “correct” changes get selected?

    You keep making it up as you go and keep sticking that foot deeper and deeper into your mouth. Great work Dr. Guano!

  6. Thorton: No Joe.The selection coefficient is just a measure of the relative fitness of an organism as compared to all the organisms in a population.

    In your “cell internal GA” scenario, how does the GA know its individual fitness relative to the rest of the population?

    How does the internal GA manage to direct the external selection pressures to ensure that only the “correct” changes get selected?

    You keep making it up as you go and keep sticking that foot deeper and deeper into your mouth.Great work Dr. Guano!

    Lol!

    Thank you for continuing to prove that you are igniorant of GAs- the selection coefficient is what allows the mutations to accumulate towards the goal.

    And in my scenario the selection coefficient matches to the protein function required, just as I have said.

    IOW shut up you ignorant fuck

  8. Joe G: They ARE actvely caused by the GA- that is what GAs do.

    You have not established that there are GAs or “goals” inside of living cells.

    They are random wrt probability of their occurence, not that the occur by chance.

    So your magic GA somehow causes the mutations, but the results are indistinguishable from pure random chance.

    You get funnier every day!

  9. Thorton: You have not established that there are GAs or “goals” inside of living cells.

    So your magic GA somehow causes the mutations, but the results are indistinguishable from pure random chance.

    You get funnier every day!

    YOU have NEVER established anything beyond the fact that you are ignorant and a coward…

  10. Just when you thought it couldn’t get any better, I give you Thorton, the amazing EvoTard and its incredible math/ information formulation:

    tardtard had sed:

    I start with a gene of length 32 base pairs. I give it to IDCer One and he uses your formula for determining CSI from the number of base pairs as 5 bits

    The gene then undergoes a duplication event to length 64 base pairs. I give it to IDCer Two and he uses your formula for determining CSI from the number of base pairs. He gets a CSI value of 6 bits, or one bit larger than IDCer One’s case.

    I didn’t understand that as each nucleotide = 2 bits. 4 possible nucleotides = 2^2 = 2 bits. So, to me, a gene with 32 base pairs would have the information carrying capacity of 64 bits.

    Back to tardtard. So I asked it about its math. tardtard responded with:

    2^5 = 32, 2^6=64

    That is so wrong it is pathetic. tardtard is proud to be an ignorant piece of shit liar.

    So according to thorton if I have 32 bits of information and someone gives me 32 more bits of information, I only have 6 bits of information.

    Thanks for the continued entertainment thorton. Now I understand why you won’t support your position.

  11. So your magic GA somehow causes the mutations,</blockquote

    Yes, it does

    but the results are indistinguishable from pure random chance.

    Nope, that is false.

    If random chance could do it then we wouldn’t have to write GAs- moron.

  12. olegt: Oh no, you had to spoil everything, Joe. How could you?

    Selection improves the fitness of the population, that’s correct. However, it has no influence on mutations. Mutations remain the same even as the organisms get fitter. Mutations stay undirected.

    You are a moron- the mutations arev directed towards the goal by the selection coefficient

  13. Thorton: Joe, the changes that get selected are dependent on the EXTERNAL selection pressures of the environment.

    How do your INTERNAL GAs control the EXTERNAL selection pressures of the environment?

    You can keep running from the question Joe, but the problem for you won’t go away.

    They don’t- they don’t have to- you are a fucking jerk

  14. Thorton: More incompetence from Joe G.The selection coefficient is an after the fact determination of the relative fitness.It doesn’t “allow” anything.

    I’ll ask again:In your “cell internal GA” scenario, how does the GA know its individual fitness relative to the rest of the population?

    Since the “protein function required” for maximal fitness is dependent on the current external environment, and the internal GA has no knowledge or control of the external environment OR the relative fitness of its fellow members of the population, just how is that suppose to work Joe?

    BTW Joe, if your magic designer knew ahead of time what proteins he wanted, why didn’t he just build the damn things directly instead of the convoluted “let them evolve by GA” route?

    Your question- how does the GA know its individual fitness relative to the rest of the population? PROVES that you are a clueless fuck

  15. And again evoTARDs- if you could just step up and actually support the claims of your position, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    However you are too coward lyto do something like that.

    as predicted…

    faggiots

  16. olegt: Joe, you are halfway on to being right. Just one more little effort from you (two plus or minus one days).

    Mutations are not directed. They are randomly chosen. What is directed are organisms. They are evaluated for fitness. Mutations stay random and undirected even in the fittest organisms. Read the manual.

    Oleg- you are just pathetic- I say that because you don’t even address what I post- you are a coward.

    What YOU are just now discovering about GAs, I have known for many, many years.

    You have absolutely nothing to offer wrt GAs oleg, nothing at all.

  17. Thorton: Then what does the GA do when the external selection pressures drives the organism AWAY from the goal?

    Same problem for you Joe. In a computer run GA the GA has control over the external selection pressures. That’s how it steers the population towards the goal. Your internal GAs have NO way to control the direction of the external selection pressures, therefore NO way to steer towards the goal.

    Your idiot idea is good and busted Joe.Stick to ticks and watermelons.

    What abouty a VIRTUAL ENVIRONMENT don’t you undersatnd?

    Where the fuck would a designer put the GA in the real world in order to causes changes to the inside of an organism?

    IOW you are so fucking clueless you are pathetic.

    Fucking coward

  18. This too:

    And again evoTARDs- if you could just step up and actually support the claims of your position, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    However you are too coward lyto do something like that.

    as predicted…

  20. Followed by:

    And again evoTARDs- if you could just step up and actually support the claims of your position, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    However you are too coward lyto do something like that.

    as predicted…

  21. Still waiting:

    And again evoTARDs- if you could just step up and actually support the claims of your position, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    However you are too coward lyto do something like that.

    as predicted…

  22. olegt: Indeed, GAs can be applied to a variety of problems. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t share some basic principles. Those principles include the use of random mutations and selection by fitness. (Read the manual.) If you wish to discard one of the basic principles, such as the undirected nature of mutations, that’s fine, but then you are not using a standard GA. It’s something else now.

    oleg shut up as all you have are false accusations- you are a moron.

    I am not discarding anything- I said the mutations are random- however the sc directes them towards the goal- dumbass

  23. Patrick: Not really.When Lizzie gets home, she’s not going to be happy about this mess.

    Cue Desi:”You got a lot of ‘splainin to do!”

    Yeah, I feel a bit guilty about that. This whole thread will go right to the shit hole, and deservedly so. There it will remain a monument to Joe Gallien’s incredible stupidity.

    I’ve saved some of the best bits (like the ‘Stark Trek” evidence 🙂 to use on Joi-boi elsewhere.

  24. damitall:
    I really, really, REALLY want to see a genetic algorithm written and used byJoeG.

    I’ll be honest – I think it just possible he may have used one; I don’t believe at all that he’s ever written a functioning GA

    Thorton: Please provide a reference from a GA expert saying that a GA can run completely internal to the organism doing the evolving.

    We’ll wait.

    Umm the DNA seqyunece inside the organism would be doing the evolving you moron.

    Ya see in my scenario the organism would be like the computer and the GA is inside of the computer.

  25. shrug-

    And again evoTARDs- if you could just step up and actually support the claims of your position, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    However you are too coward lyto do something like that.

    as predicted…

  26. Thorton: There is no GA designer in the real world Joe.

    There are no goals for evolution in the real world.

    In the real world organisms get slight random variations every time they reproduce.

    In the real world the variable external environment supplies selection pressure on the variants and favors those mutations with the better survival potential in that current environment.As a result there is no “goal”, there are only populations tracking environmental changes.

    Human created GAs are processes that emulate the real world, with one big exception:Human created GAs consciously manipulate the external selection pressure to drive the populations towards a desired goal.That’s the same way human animal breeders use artificial selection to bring out desired traits.They consciously manipulate the external selection pressures on the animals.

    Your internal GAs CAN’T DO IT Joe.They can’t manipulate external selection pressures.

    You’re busted Joe.Scream and kick as much as you want but you FAILED.

    Hey asshole coward- you still don’t have any evidence for your position.

    You and your position are HUGE FAILS

    BTW nice question-begging post

  27. olegt: Keep up the good work, Joe. You’re almost there.

    Nope your “corrections” are pure tard.

    What I said is correct:

    I am not discarding anything- I said the mutations are random- however the sc direcets them towards the goal- dumbass

    You, an obvious ignoart fuck, don’t get to change it.

  28. olegt: I don’t think you’ve written any genetic algorithms, Joe. But you can prove me wrong by presenting them here. I don’t think you will.

    I don’t care what you say oleg. And yeah I will go back to my old company and demand my twenty year old software back.

    Fuck you oleg- you are just an ignorant asshole

  29. olegt: Doesn’t matter, Joe. You can think of DNA sequences in this context. Selection still acts on individuals in the populations. Mutations remain undirected.

    Fuck you asshole. Of course it matters and selection would act on the DNA sequences or proteins.

  30. I hope that at least one thing has become abundantly clear. Joe G has absolutely no interest in or knowledge about anything in science.

    His purpose is and always has been to taunt, insult, call names and spam other people’s blogs out of existence.

  31. Mike Elzinga:
    I hope that at least one thing has become abundantly clear.Joe G has absolutely no interest in or knowledge about anything in science.

    His purpose is and always has been to taunt, insult, call names and spam other people’s blogs out of existence.

    Fuck you Mike

    As I said I am sick of your retarded false accusations.

    I would love to see you say that shit to my face- then I could show you natural selection in action.

  33. Joe G: They are all part of the GA, which is telling the mutations to ovccur and then cumulatively selecting the mutations organisms which best fit the target have higher fitness.

    Jesus Christ, the guy is unable to learn.

  34. olegt: Jesus Christ, the guy is unable to learn.

    If I wanted to learn how to be an ignorant fuck, I would listen to you oleg.

    However it is obviousl that you are ignorant of GAs and as such have nothing to teach.

  35. olegt: We are not trying to prove you wrong, Joe. We are discussing GAs. That’s the state goal of this thread, remember? Everyone, except you, agrees on the basic definition of a GA. You seem to disagree with the standard definition and insist that mutations are directed. Well, we have looked at various descriptions of GAs in reasonable competent sources and found nothing that would back you up. Fine, maybe Wikipedia, Liz, and all of us is wrong and you are right. So far, however, you have not presented anything that backs up your position.

    Fuck you asshole- I agree on the basic definition of GAs…

    And I said the mutations are random and the selection process directed them towards the goal- which it does.

    IOW oleg- you a liar and a piece-of-shit- but I am sure you are proud of that

  36. olegt:
    So, how about describing those GAs that you have written, Joe? Us unwashed masses could learn a thing or two from you, Mr. Expert!

    oleg- you are obvioulsy too ignorant and too dishonest to learn.

  37. olegt: Why hide that brilliance? Put it out for all of us to see!

    You are an ignorant fuck oleg- you get nothing unless you pay me

  38. Mike Elzinga: Q.E.D.

    All the threads you show up on are far longer and fact-free than all other threads; and most of this is your insults, taunts and swearing name-calling. You have more of your crap sent to Guano.

    This is not an idol “accusation,” it is pure, objectively observable fact.Count the comments.

    You simply cannot prove that wrong.

    You’ll have to excuse Joe Gallien, he’s not very intelligent. Joe always operates under the idea that the more he curses and insults, the more his stupid brain fart ideas are supported.

    Joe’s the kind of guy who thinks putting flame decals on the side of your car makes it go faster.

  39. Thorton: You’ll have to excuse Joe Gallien, he’s not very intelligent. Joe always operates under the idea that the more he curses and insults, the more his stupid brain fart ideas are supported.
    Joe’s the kind of guy who thinks putting flame decals on the side of your car makes it go faster.

    He is also sneering about this over on UD.

  40. Joe G: I have told you and provided references wrt natural selection.

    Thank you for proving that you are an ignorant tool.

    BTW ole ignorant tool- DARWIN used NS as a designer mimic, meaning evos think it can construct things- man you are one sorry ignorant bitch.

    So, my questions are too difficult for you to answer?

  41. Joe G: Mice stupid response- I said GAs TRY to mimic NS- they don’t because NS doesn’t do anything

    Joe G:BTW Allan – variation, ie mutation is part of natural selection.

    Joe’s current meltdown is reaching its climax.

    Of course Joe is multi-tardgasmic.

  42. Thorton:
    Joe’s current meltdown is reaching its climax.

    Of course Joe is multi-tardgasmic.

    Yes tardtard- you are still a fucking moron and a coward.

    What else is new?

  43. OM: What does the selection in a GA Joe?

    The GA, which means whatever the selection coefficient the programmer used.

  46. Joe G: Well there doesn’t seem to be a “theory” of evolution- no science at all.

    But “ID isn’t anti-evolution” – Joe Gallien, internet idiot and would be bully.

  47. oleg- why discuss anything? Why not just start supporting the claims of your position?

    We could discuss that if you ever even tried…

  48. And Elizabeth- as I told you before- keep your dogs away from me and I can play nice- so stare hard at them- TRY to be objective, anyway…

  49. Joe G:
    And Elizabeth- as I told you before- keep your dogs away from me and I can play nice- so stare hard at them- TRY to be objective, anyway…

    I do try to be objective, Joe. In fact, when I moderated that recent thread, I actually put a sheet of cardboard up to cover the avatars so that I could avoid noticing who was posting what. There were a number of posters violating the rules, but the vast majority of violating posts were from you.

    I’m not going to “keep dogs away” from anyone. The rules are clear, and I will neither censor nor ban. All I will do is move rule-violating posts. If everyone behaves like grown-ups (as I believe we all are) there need be no moved posts. Just “assume the other poster is posting in good faith”, even if you actually think they aren’t. Personally I think everyone is. The point of this site is to try to understand why we genuinely disagree.

    I genuinely disagree with Dr Sewell, but I look forward to his counter-arguments, if he would like to present them.

  50. Joe G: Mike, we can do things with nature that nature, operating freely cannot do.

    What does any of this have to do with entropy and the second law?

    I was trying to find out what you know about entropy and the second law.

    Did you ever take that concept test over on Mark Chu-Carroll’s site?

Comments are closed.