- Over the last month, UD has been down more often than it has been up. In addition, Barry and News have been AWOL, leaving the keys to the kingdom to a pompous, arrogant, sermonizing narcissist. My apologies. That was uncharitable. It appears that Gordon Mullings, the Montserrat messiah, has been left to clean up after the party.
If UD does go the way of the dodo, I worry about Bornagain77 and Kairosfocus. Two individuals whose entire meaning for existence appears to be centred on their UD personas. Hopefully they have other outlets for their “sky is falling” rants.
“If UD does go the way of the dodo, I worry about Bornagain77 and Kairosfocus.”
I don’t worry about either of them. I don’t much think about either, except to avoid reading their posts.
I just checked and, at first, the site loaded quickly and displayed correctly. The first couple of internal links worked and then it was back to “took too long to
loadrespond”.I guess Barry is too busy to get his IP provider to sort it. Maybe the ad revenue has dropped below a level that makes fixing it worth it.
Anyway, the fact is “Intelligent Design” has become redundant. The religious right in the US have succeeded in bypassing church state separation with the current make-up of the Supreme Court and the ID figleaf is no longer needed.
One of the ID regulars at Uncommon Descent, Jerry, has posted a link to an article by Bill Dembski which apparently confirms UD is closing.
Imitation… Flattery… And so on. See Alan, I can afford to quote unquote “evolution” because I can disprove it in so many ways. Can you disprove Intelligent Design to afford the same? No, you can’t.
And don’t get too happy about UD. They were more active than tsz recently. Who knows why they’re shutting down. Not because they surrendered to you in any case.
I’m ambivalent. It’s the last pro-ID site where (some of the time) discussion across the void was possible
Maybe.
My bet is still on ID being redundant following the shift in the US Supreme Court.
Maybe it will rise again after a few days …
I won’t be too sad to see UD pass away. I’ve been commenting there the past few months, and it’s a consistently frustrating, unrewarding experience. The steadfast True Believers no longer even pretend to be interested in having a conversation. For them it’s a fight about saving the heart and soul of Western civilization, and no quarter shall be given.
More problematically, I think, a site like Uncommon Descent is no longer necessary because the formerly fringe views that found expression there are now the official position of the Republican Party.
I suspect there are tears flowing in Montserrat. But knowing Mullings, I suspect that he will blame the death of UD on a global conspiracy to silence his voice.
I’ve said the same. You’re right; ID is redundant. For an outsider, US politics looks a bit scary currently.
But who will know? Where will he and his ilk find a platform?
From an insider perspective, it’s fucking terrifying.
From a northern neighbour, I am terrified as well. The US appears to be turning into a theocracy. Mullings must be ecstatic.
Maybe though I tried poking the corpse just now and none of the links are live, including the “about” article from Bill Dembski saying UD is being archived. I suspect being archived does not necessarily mean staying visible.
I hear the other side crying the same tune. End Times.
I, for one, welcome our new silicon overlords. They will serve mankind.
The right-wing is crying about the End Times because transgendered people are permitted to get gender-affirming medical care. The left wing is crying about the End Times because global capitalism will not permit us to mitigate climate change.
These are not the same.
I could not disagree more: AGI will serve the interests of surveillance capitalism. Those interests are directly opposed to the interests of humanity.
I think the US is headed towards a patchwork of laws, much as it had before (and after) the Civil War. Some states will become theocracies where abortion is outlawed, LGBT people are barred from certain professions, and gender dysphoria is treated as if it were a mental illness. Other states will take a more secular, enlightened, and permissive path. Eventually the Supreme Court will be asked to weigh in, as it was with the Dred Scott decision.
Who is Mullings?
That’s a reference to kairosfocus.
Thanks. I suspected as much from the context….
TSZ is against outing RL identities as a general rule.
Rules (admittedly a bit in need of light editing)
Agreed. Though Kairosfocus and BornAgain77 have indicated their real-life names several times, I think we should try to use their online handles when referring to them.
For that matter, I’ve indicated my real-life name a few times, but I’d prefer being referred to by my online handle. My main reason is that I don’t want my activities here or at UD to show up whenever someone searches for me using my real-life name.
I thought the Simpsons reference and the reference to a famous science fiction trope would make my intentions clear.
(It was a cookbook)
But yes, AI is expensive, and will be monetized non-transparently.
OK so I might need a new place to argue online. TR seems tired of me and they say I’ve become a Nazi and a Tankie which is nonsense but of course they believe many things that are nonsense so it’s not surprising. They seem to be more interested in picking the lint out of each other’s navels than solving any real world problems. I on the other hand, am having fun trying to solve some of the world’s problems in my corner of the world and online debate and discussion is a part of that for me. I began posting online in about 2005 or so, arguing creation / evolution mainly and I think creationism is going more mainstream every year but in recent years I’ve been posting more about Allan Savory‘s holistic management system and getting good at it myself, I have launched a small village for homeless people, and I am interested in global economics / China / BRICS thanks to Professor Michael Hudson. I was thinking about posting at uncommon descent but it sounds like it’s closing so if y’all have any suggestions of where I would fit in, let me know! (I mainly like arguing with people who do not agree with me, I don’t like echo chambers)
UD was bound to die as was theskeptialzone, which it was at more than one time…One of the reasons why thescalptecical didn’t die yet is UD is dead and https://peacefulscience.org owner wants to be worshiped, so no other gods are allowed…especially Behe fans…
I thought you were married, no???
Aleta of old here, one-time Hazel, and recently Viola Lee at UD. I gave up UD recently, and so, it seems did PyrrhoManiac, who was interesting and over-qualified to be talking to those guys. No offense, I hope, but if people like JVL, Charlie Darwin, Seversky, me, and a few others, hadn’t kept feeding their repetitious obsessions the place would never had stayed alive.
In truth, quite a few of pro-ID regulars are not very smart, and others are evidence that being smart in some ways doesn’t necessarily lead to anything approaching reasonable knowledge. However, I am the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to discussing obsession because my forays into UD (always leading to getting out) was a classic case of “someone’s wrong on the internet” and I need to do something about it! 🙂
And I’ll say I really learned a lot discussing things at UD, learning how to articulate my beliefs and how to stay focused on an argument despite digressions all around me. And I’ve learned a lot from watching others of you strive to do likewise, especially, I think, Seversky. And I’ve dug into subjects that I never would have spent time thinking or reading about, so that part has been a plus. But as the quality of pro-ID people declined, my frustration at the quality of interaction outweighed the positives.
I’ll note that the notice about closing down point people to ENV, which does not allow comments. I think one reason UD might be closing down is the quality of pro-ID comments is often, frankly, embarrassing. Who knows whether someplace else will arise, and if is actually possible for a somewhat constructive and civil discussion forum to exist. Given the widespread political polarization that some of you have mentioned above, I’m inclined to doubt it.
But my life became better when I really, truly left UD, and I’ve found plenty to do that is better for my spirits, although I do miss the intellectual challenge of confronting some of those guys sometimes.
Oh well, end of rambling. I’m glad I ran into this thread and let myself unload a bit.
Best wishes to you all.
I was astonished to see UD actually end, as braindead and repetitive as the anti-evolution denizens had become. The archived version is of limited use because (1) they never even indicate what order the comments are in (in actuality the first ones are the most recent) and their dates are not given. And, as noted here, there is the matter of the links working. And Evolution News so far seems never to have mentioned this great event! They have declared victory and withdrawn their troops, in effect.
For a more useful archiving see the Wayback Machine at archive.org, and put in as the web address archived: https://uncommondescent.com
I think links will work there.
Kantan Naturalist predicted:
Oh, so did that satisfactorily resolve the issue and prevent further conflict?
It seems to me obvious now that the issue of teaching creationism will get to the Supreme Court, whose right wing majority will declare that they leave this to the states.
So we will have more, not less, conflict in the trenches there, and sites that can serve as a repository of arguments will become more, not less, important.
How small? You’ve mentioned elsewhere there is currently one occupant, I think.
The final phase of Uncommon Descent would have been the perfect place for you. Start your own blog?
Hi Aleta. For some reason I thought you were someone previously involved in the Kansas education system whose name I won’t mention but think of fondly.
I agree Pyrrhomaniac was a cut above the average ID skeptic at UD. I wonder if we shall see his like again
I can still view Uncommon Descent at the usual IP address. Posted a comment, too. I’d love to hear the inside story. Bill Dembski’s explanation rings a bit hollow.
My homeless “village” has a population of 2 right now! Wow. Earth shaking huh? But I like starting small. Makes it manageable and there’s a lot more to “giving a hand up, not a hand out” to homeless people than meets the eye. It takes deep involvement with each one to really improve their lives and get them to be self sufficient, productive members of society.
Yeah I’ve had my own blog for years — http://www.truthmatters.info — but I like arguing at atheist / agnostic forums better.
HMGuy,
I’m a long-time lurker and occasional comment poster at Talkrational. I’m aware you’ve been roundly criticized there over this (and other stuff).
I understand, finding it fun to argue with the regulars at Uncommon Descent.
However, bear in mind the rules, especially on racism and LGBT issues.
I don’t really understand endless arguing. If I have something to say, I say it, explore it for a few rounds, and move on.
I can’t figure out why people continue to argue about evolution. At the beginning of the pandemic I chatted with a person who asserted that covid was structurally different from flu, making it unlikely to escape vaccine immunity. I had no knowledge with which to argue against this, but my gut said it was wrong. Even at the level of viruses, arguing against evolution is a losing hand.
I mean, you cannot predict in detail what will happen at the molecular level, but you can predict that respiratory viruses will find a way.
So I followed the link to UD, and from there to ENV.
What to my wondering eyes should appear, on the first page, but Paley’s watchmaker.
Imagine my surprise.
Alan Fox,
Oh please. You’ve been suckered by Pingu’s propaganda that I’m a Nazi, racist, homophobe, blah blah blah. She’s full of crap. Here’s my new sig over there to honor this moronity …
You do know who owns this site?
aleta,
It’s been an abnormally long and hard winter out here in the Rockies, and us old, retired guys that would normally be out golfing or hiking have been forced to vent on the web to kill time. And to paraphrase a great philosopher, a good fight justifies any cause.
But you are right, we do bear some of the blame for the continued existence of UD. It was/is one of the most bizarre blogs I’ve ever encountered. Kind of an amateur psychologist’s fantasy come true or like rubbernecking at an accident scene–just can’t look away.
Hope you stick around this blog–you always have great perspectives………
You are trolling. I don’t know who you are, and I don’t care. So far you’ve done nothing but bloviate about yourself.
Wow! I feel dumb for having missed such an obvious joke! And it’s definitely not you — it’s me — it was a great cultural reference that I should have immediately picked up on. Mea culpa!
I enjoyed talking with “Viola Lee” at UD these past few months. I’ve been posting there as PyrrhoManiac1. I didn’t use my Kantian Naturalist handle because a long, long time ago, I had been posting there as Kantian Naturalist (before TSZ was started) and at one point I really lost my cool and announced I wasn’t going to return. So when I returned, I had to use a different handle.
So, thanks for the compliment, though you didn’t realize it was aimed at me!
Nice to connect with you here, KN aka PM! 🙂
Likewise! I enjoyed your comments at UD as “Viola Lee”!
I’ve noticed that the old UD doesn’t start with www and the new one does, so they are different, and that KF’s latest post, after Dembski’s goodbye post, has not been archived. I wonder what this means. I’ve gotten curious..
HMGuy, I moved this comment to Guano.
ETA and another one.
Moderation issues for this site have their own thread. Moderation issues at other sites are not our business.
Could it be that powers-that-be don’t hold the same regard for Kairosfocus’ OPs that he has?
Alan Fox,
You’re talking about UD here … but we can’t talk about TR here?
Okey dokey.
HMGuy,
If you want to discuss Talkrational, I suggest you take it to the sandbox thread, unless you think it worth authoring an OP.
I authored an OP here several days ago — a really interesting one I think — and it’s still not approved … why author another one if I can’t even get the first one approved? Anyway, there’s no real need to discuss TR here …
What’s up with atheists’ obsession with validation through the US legal system? I mean wether “evolution” is scientific or not will not be decided in any court be it US, Indian, or Chinese.
“Fringe views”? You mean rejection of “evolution”?Maybe with respect to your insignificant historical and demographic bubble which will pop soon enough. And rest assured that the Republican Party is, sadly, made up of brainwashed individuals just like the rest of the US /EU.
Hey Joe, why would you allow your views to be occasionally challenged here at tsz when you can stay in your echo box at panda’s? BTW, if I know your “theory” well enough, I’d say your buddies in the echo chamber are much more likely to be braindead than those at UD that expose themselves to criticism. So what do you say about opening up panda’s?
HMGuy,
Apologies, I don’t check the pending file routinely. Some kind of headsup is helpful.